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From: "Laszlo Ersek" <lersek@redhat.com>
To: Igor Mammedov <imammedo@redhat.com>
Cc: "Yao, Jiewen" <jiewen.yao@intel.com>,
	"Kinney, Michael D" <michael.d.kinney@intel.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"rfc@edk2.groups.io" <rfc@edk2.groups.io>,
	Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@redhat.com>,
	"devel@edk2.groups.io" <devel@edk2.groups.io>,
	qemu devel list <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>,
	"Chen, Yingwen" <yingwen.chen@intel.com>,
	"Nakajima, Jun" <jun.nakajima@intel.com>,
	Boris Ostrovsky <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
	Joao Marcal Lemos Martins <joao.m.martins@oracle.com>,
	Phillip Goerl <phillip.goerl@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: [edk2-rfc] [edk2-devel] CPU hotplug using SMM with QEMU+OVMF
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 21:09:58 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2ef1910e-8879-028a-4db6-97a0ecc64083@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190902104534.46e58c95@redhat.com>

On 09/02/19 10:45, Igor Mammedov wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:46:14 +0200
> Laszlo Ersek <lersek@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 08/30/19 16:48, Igor Mammedov wrote:
>>
>>> (01) On boot firmware maps and initializes SMI handler at default SMBASE (30000)
>>>      (using dedicated SMRAM at 30000 would allow us to avoid save/restore
>>>       steps and make SMM handler pointer not vulnerable to DMA attacks)
>>>
>>> (02) QEMU hotplugs a new CPU in reset-ed state and sends SCI
>>>
>>> (03) on receiving SCI, host CPU calls GPE cpu hotplug handler
>>>       which writes to IO port 0xB2 (broadcast SMI)
>>>
>>> (04) firmware waits for all existing CPUs rendezvous in SMM mode,
>>>      new CPU(s) have SMI pending but does nothing yet
>>>
>>> (05) host CPU wakes up one new CPU (INIT-INIT-SIPI)
>>>      SIPI vector points to RO flash HLT loop.
>>>      (how host CPU will know which new CPUs to relocate?
>>>       possibly reuse QEMU CPU hotplug MMIO interface???)
>>>
>>> (06) new CPU does relocation.
>>>      (in case of attacker sends SIPI to several new CPUs,
>>>       open question how to detect collision of several CPUs at the same default SMBASE)
>>>
>>> (07) once new CPU relocated host CPU completes initialization, returns
>>>      from IO port write and executes the rest of GPE handler, telling OS
>>>      to online new CPU.  
>>
>> In step (03), it is the OS that handles the SCI; it transfers control to
>> ACPI. The AML can write to IO port 0xB2 only because the OS allows it.
>>
>> If the OS decides to omit that step, and sends an INIT-SIPI-SIPI
>> directly to the new CPU, can it steal the CPU?
> It sure can but this way it won't get access to privileged SMRAM
> so OS can't subvert firmware.
> The next time SMI broadcast is sent the CPU will use SMI handler at
> default 30000 SMBASE. It's up to us to define behavior here (for example
> relocation handler can put such CPU in shutdown state).
> 
> It's in the best interest of OS to cooperate and execute AML
> provided by firmware, if it does not follow proper cpu hotplug flow
> we can't guarantee that stolen CPU will work.

This sounds convincing enough, for the hotplugged CPU; thanks.

So now my concern is with step (01). While preparing for the initial
relocation (of cold-plugged CPUs), the code assumes the memory at the
default SMBASE (0x30000) is normal RAM.

Is it not a problem that the area is written initially while running in
normal 32-bit or 64-bit mode, but then executed (in response to the
first, synchronous, SMI) as SMRAM?

Basically I'm confused by the alias.

TSEG (and presumably, A/B seg) work like this:
- when open, looks like RAM to normal mode and SMM
- when closed, looks like black-hole to normal mode, and like RAM to SMM

The generic edk2 code knows this, and manages the SMRAM areas accordingly.

The area at 0x30000 is different:
- looks like RAM to both normal mode and SMM

If we set up the alias at 0x30000 into A/B seg,
- will that *permanently* hide the normal RAM at 0x30000?
- will 0x30000 start behaving like A/B seg?

Basically my concern is that the universal code in edk2 might or might
not keep A/B seg open while initially populating the area at the default
SMBASE. Specifically, I can imagine two issues:

- if the alias into A/B seg is inactive during the initial population,
then the initial writes go to RAM, but the execution (the first SMBASE
relocation) will occur from A/B seg through the alias

- alternatively, if the alias is always active, but A/B seg is closed
during initial population (which happens in normal mode), then the
initial writes go to the black hole, and execution will occur from a
"blank" A/B seg.

Am I seeing things? (Sorry, I keep feeling dumber and dumber in this
thread.)

Anyway, I guess we could try and see if OVMF still boots with the alias...

Thanks
Laszlo

  reply	other threads:[~2019-09-02 19:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-08-13 14:16 CPU hotplug using SMM with QEMU+OVMF Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-13 16:09 ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-13 16:18   ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-14 13:20   ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-14 14:04     ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-15  9:55       ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-15 16:04         ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-15 15:00       ` [edk2-devel] " Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-15 16:16         ` Igor Mammedov
2019-08-15 16:21         ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-16  2:46           ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-16  7:20             ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-16  7:49               ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-16 20:15                 ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-16 22:19                   ` Alex Williamson
2019-08-17  0:20                     ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-18 19:50                       ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-18 23:00                         ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-19 14:10                           ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-21 12:07                             ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-21 15:48                           ` [edk2-rfc] " Michael D Kinney
2019-08-21 17:05                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-21 17:25                               ` Michael D Kinney
2019-08-21 17:39                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-21 20:17                                   ` Michael D Kinney
2019-08-22  6:18                                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-22 18:29                                       ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-22 18:51                                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-23 14:53                                           ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-22 20:13                                         ` Michael D Kinney
2019-08-22 17:59                               ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-22 18:43                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-22 20:06                                   ` Michael D Kinney
2019-08-22 22:18                                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-22 22:32                                       ` Michael D Kinney
2019-08-22 23:11                                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-23  1:02                                           ` Michael D Kinney
2019-08-23  5:00                                             ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-23 15:25                                               ` Michael D Kinney
2019-08-24  1:48                                                 ` Yao, Jiewen
2019-08-27 18:31                                                   ` Igor Mammedov
2019-08-29 17:01                                                     ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-30 14:48                                                       ` Igor Mammedov
2019-08-30 18:46                                                         ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-09-02  8:45                                                           ` Igor Mammedov
2019-09-02 19:09                                                             ` Laszlo Ersek [this message]
2019-09-03 14:53                                                               ` [Qemu-devel] " Igor Mammedov
2019-09-03 17:20                                                                 ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-09-04  9:52                                                                   ` imammedo
2019-09-05 13:08                                                                     ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-09-05 15:45                                                                       ` Igor Mammedov
2019-09-05 15:49                                                                       ` [PATCH] q35: lpc: allow to lock down 128K RAM at default SMBASE address Igor Mammedov
2019-09-09 19:15                                                                         ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-09-09 19:20                                                                           ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-09-10 15:58                                                                           ` Igor Mammedov
2019-09-11 17:30                                                                             ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-09-17 13:11                                                                               ` [edk2-devel] " Igor Mammedov
2019-09-17 14:38                                                                                 ` [staging/branch]: CdePkg - C Development Environment Package Minnow Ware
2019-08-26 15:30                                                 ` [edk2-rfc] [edk2-devel] CPU hotplug using SMM with QEMU+OVMF Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-27 16:23                                                   ` Igor Mammedov
2019-08-27 20:11                                                     ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-28 12:01                                                       ` Igor Mammedov
2019-08-29 16:25                                                         ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-30 13:49                                                           ` [Qemu-devel] " Igor Mammedov
2019-08-22 17:53                             ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-16 20:00           ` Laszlo Ersek
2019-08-15 16:07       ` Igor Mammedov
2019-08-15 16:24         ` Paolo Bonzini
2019-08-16  7:42           ` Igor Mammedov

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