* [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver @ 2018-09-20 14:30 poxyran 2018-09-20 21:09 ` Andrew Fish 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: poxyran @ 2018-09-20 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: edk2-devel Hello, I have a specific question regarding SMM drivers. I'm trying to create a mixed driver as mentioned here http://blog.cr4.sh/2015/07/building-reliable-smm-backdoor-for-uefi.html and my first try is to create a kind of 'Hello World'. My try is to install a SMI handler and call it from a user-mode app once the OS booted up. The testing aproach mentioned in the blog post is not practical, from my pooint of view. My question is, is it possible to test this kind of drivers from the UEFI shell? or do I need to setup a dedicated machine as mentioned here https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt? BR, poxyran ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver 2018-09-20 14:30 [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver poxyran @ 2018-09-20 21:09 ` Andrew Fish 2018-09-21 18:15 ` poxyran 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Andrew Fish @ 2018-09-20 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: poxyran; +Cc: edk2-devel > On Sep 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, poxyran <poxyrantab@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a specific question regarding SMM drivers. I'm trying to create a > mixed driver as mentioned here > http://blog.cr4.sh/2015/07/building-reliable-smm-backdoor-for-uefi.html > and my first try is to create a kind of 'Hello World'. My try is to > install a SMI handler and call it from a user-mode app once the OS > booted up. The testing aproach mentioned in the blog post is not > practical, from my pooint of view. My question is, is it possible to > test this kind of drivers from the UEFI shell? or do I need to setup a > dedicated machine as mentioned here poxyran, I'm not sure what you are asking? Indirectly referencing a 10,000 word article is not very helpful. Feel free to ask a specific question. Thanks, Andrew Fish > https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt? > > BR, > poxyran > > _______________________________________________ > edk2-devel mailing list > edk2-devel@lists.01.org > https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/edk2-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver 2018-09-20 21:09 ` Andrew Fish @ 2018-09-21 18:15 ` poxyran 2018-09-21 18:41 ` Andrew Fish 2018-09-21 19:05 ` Laszlo Ersek 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: poxyran @ 2018-09-21 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew Fish; +Cc: edk2-devel Hello again, my question is: is it possible to create a SMM driver that installs/register a SMI handler (in order to call it from a usermode app in the OS) and test it in the UEFI Shell or do I need to setup up a dedicated machine with the SMM stack as described in official EDK II documentation [1]? [1] https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt On 9/20/2018 6:09 PM, Andrew Fish wrote: > >> On Sep 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, poxyran <poxyrantab@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I have a specific question regarding SMM drivers. I'm trying to create a >> mixed driver as mentioned here >> http://blog.cr4.sh/2015/07/building-reliable-smm-backdoor-for-uefi.html >> and my first try is to create a kind of 'Hello World'. My try is to >> install a SMI handler and call it from a user-mode app once the OS >> booted up. The testing aproach mentioned in the blog post is not >> practical, from my pooint of view. My question is, is it possible to >> test this kind of drivers from the UEFI shell? or do I need to setup a >> dedicated machine as mentioned here > poxyran, > > I'm not sure what you are asking? Indirectly referencing a 10,000 word article is not very helpful. Feel free to ask a specific question. > > Thanks, > > Andrew Fish > >> https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt? >> >> BR, >> poxyran >> >> _______________________________________________ >> edk2-devel mailing list >> edk2-devel@lists.01.org >> https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/edk2-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver 2018-09-21 18:15 ` poxyran @ 2018-09-21 18:41 ` Andrew Fish 2018-09-21 19:05 ` Laszlo Ersek 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Andrew Fish @ 2018-09-21 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: poxyran; +Cc: edk2-devel > On Sep 21, 2018, at 11:15 AM, poxyran <poxyrantab@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello again, > > my question is: is it possible to create a SMM driver that > installs/register a SMI handler (in order to call it from a usermode app > in the OS) and test it in the UEFI Shell poxyran, Does "test it in the UEFI Shell" mean load the SMM driver from the UEFI Shell? The answer to that is no. It should be possible to communicate with SMM code from the UEFI Shell. The difference in testing from the OS is gEfiEventExitBootServicesGuid has fired an a lot of the UEFI Boot Services have been freed when running from an OS. It is also much easier to test the ACPI flows like S3 (suspend to RAM) from an OS. On edk2 systems that support UEFI Secure Boot the UEFI Variable Services make SMM calls, since the variable write code lives in SMM. So when you write a variable at the UEFI Shell there is an SMM call going on. See: https://github.com/tianocore/edk2/blob/UDK2018/MdeModulePkg/Universal/Variable/RuntimeDxe/VariableSmmRuntimeDxe.inf Thanks, Andrew Fish > or do I need to setup up a > dedicated machine with the SMM stack as described in official EDK II > documentation [1]? > > [1] > > https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt > > On 9/20/2018 6:09 PM, Andrew Fish wrote: >> >>> On Sep 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, poxyran <poxyrantab@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I have a specific question regarding SMM drivers. I'm trying to create a >>> mixed driver as mentioned here >>> http://blog.cr4.sh/2015/07/building-reliable-smm-backdoor-for-uefi.html >>> and my first try is to create a kind of 'Hello World'. My try is to >>> install a SMI handler and call it from a user-mode app once the OS >>> booted up. The testing aproach mentioned in the blog post is not >>> practical, from my pooint of view. My question is, is it possible to >>> test this kind of drivers from the UEFI shell? or do I need to setup a >>> dedicated machine as mentioned here >> poxyran, >> >> I'm not sure what you are asking? Indirectly referencing a 10,000 word article is not very helpful. Feel free to ask a specific question. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Andrew Fish >> >>> https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt? >>> >>> BR, >>> poxyran >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> edk2-devel mailing list >>> edk2-devel@lists.01.org >>> https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/edk2-devel > > _______________________________________________ > edk2-devel mailing list > edk2-devel@lists.01.org > https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/edk2-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver 2018-09-21 18:15 ` poxyran 2018-09-21 18:41 ` Andrew Fish @ 2018-09-21 19:05 ` Laszlo Ersek 2018-09-25 13:10 ` poxyran 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Laszlo Ersek @ 2018-09-21 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: poxyran, Andrew Fish; +Cc: edk2-devel On 09/21/18 20:15, poxyran wrote: > Hello again, > > my question is: is it possible to create a SMM driver that > installs/register a SMI handler (in order to call it from a usermode app > in the OS) and test it in the UEFI Shell or do I need to setup up a > dedicated machine with the SMM stack as described in official EDK II > documentation [1]? > > [1] > > https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt These questions are not "either/or", they are orthogonal. Normally, any pre-existent platform firmware will keep you, as a 3rd party UEFI developer, *out* of SMM. Doing otherwise would be a huge security hole. However, if you own the platform in question (meaning you can build and install the firmware to the platform), then you should be able to use whatever the SMM infrastructure has to offer. It does not matter whether you do this on a physical UEFI development platform, or in OVMF + QEMU/KVM. As long as you get sufficient access to the platform itself. I hope this answers Q1. Regarding the wiki article. I wrote that article mainly for developers with a Windows desktop background. That's why I recommend to set up a separate, headless Linux server. Because, running Linux as the host OS, you get to run OVMF on QEMU not just with software emulation (TCG) but with hardware virtualization (KVM). And the latter makes for a world of difference. If you work at a Windows shop, you can run virtualization clients (management tools) on your Windows desktop, and with them, connect to the Linux server for managing / running your firmware. If you already work on a Linux laptop, you should be able to run OVMF on QEMU/KVM using nothing but your laptop. In such cases, the libvirt client and server components, and QEMU, and the host kernel (KVM), and OVMF, build up the "virt stack" on a single machine. Whether you can do the *exact* things you want to do, within OVMF, I can't tell. I don't know what you mean to do. A good part of the edk2 SMM stack is built into OVMF with SMM_REQUIRE, but (due to QEMU/KVM being a virtual platform), at least *some* artifacts of physical hardware will be necessarily missing. (Such as SMRR, movable LAPIC base, etc.) OVMF also does not include/provide a number of standardized SMM abstractions, such as EFI_PEI_SMM_COMMUNICATION_PPI. (That's by choice, BTW.) I vaguely recall that Ray used OVMF as a testbed for some SMM driver he was developing at some point. I think Ray was using Q35 because of that (i.e. SMM), and his use case also included CSM, and that's why he wrote commit db27e9f3d8f0 ("OvmfPkg/LegacyRegion: Support legacy region manipulation of Q35", 2016-03-15). But I could be totally imagining things. If you run git log --reverse --grep=SMM -- OvmfPkg you'll get a good amount of documentation about OVMF's SMM support. The first large series was 8786ba4fe722..5e04f4b7e1a4, but things didn't stop with that, of course. The OvmfPkg/README file has some notes on SMM too. I think you should be able to imitate the variable driver split, for your use case. You can write a runtime DXE driver that exposes a custom protocol. You can write a UEFI app (to be started from the UEFI shell) that locates and calls this protocol. In the implementation of the new runtime protocol, you can use EFI_SMM_COMMUNICATION_PROTOCOL to send message buffers into SMM. (Actually you could do this directly in your UEFI app too.) I expect you should be able to write a DXE_SMM_DRIVER driver too that registered a hook for the message sent. I don't recall all the details off-hand, but it's very well specified in the Platform Init spec. I hope this helps with Q2. Thanks Laszlo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver 2018-09-21 19:05 ` Laszlo Ersek @ 2018-09-25 13:10 ` poxyran 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: poxyran @ 2018-09-25 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Laszlo Ersek, Andrew Fish; +Cc: edk2-devel Thanks Laszlo and Andrew for the answers, from what I can see, is not possible to do what I meant but your answers gave me some ideas. Thanks a lot. BR, poxyran On 9/21/2018 4:05 PM, Laszlo Ersek wrote: > On 09/21/18 20:15, poxyran wrote: >> Hello again, >> >> my question is: is it possible to create a SMM driver that >> installs/register a SMI handler (in order to call it from a usermode app >> in the OS) and test it in the UEFI Shell or do I need to setup up a >> dedicated machine with the SMM stack as described in official EDK II >> documentation [1]? >> >> [1] >> >> https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/Testing-SMM-with-QEMU,-KVM-and-libvirt > These questions are not "either/or", they are orthogonal. > > Normally, any pre-existent platform firmware will keep you, as a 3rd > party UEFI developer, *out* of SMM. Doing otherwise would be a huge > security hole. However, if you own the platform in question (meaning you > can build and install the firmware to the platform), then you should be > able to use whatever the SMM infrastructure has to offer. It does not > matter whether you do this on a physical UEFI development platform, or > in OVMF + QEMU/KVM. As long as you get sufficient access to the platform > itself. I hope this answers Q1. > > Regarding the wiki article. I wrote that article mainly for developers > with a Windows desktop background. That's why I recommend to set up a > separate, headless Linux server. Because, running Linux as the host OS, > you get to run OVMF on QEMU not just with software emulation (TCG) but > with hardware virtualization (KVM). And the latter makes for a world of > difference. If you work at a Windows shop, you can run virtualization > clients (management tools) on your Windows desktop, and with them, > connect to the Linux server for managing / running your firmware. > > If you already work on a Linux laptop, you should be able to run OVMF on > QEMU/KVM using nothing but your laptop. In such cases, the libvirt > client and server components, and QEMU, and the host kernel (KVM), and > OVMF, build up the "virt stack" on a single machine. > > Whether you can do the *exact* things you want to do, within OVMF, I > can't tell. I don't know what you mean to do. A good part of the edk2 > SMM stack is built into OVMF with SMM_REQUIRE, but (due to QEMU/KVM > being a virtual platform), at least *some* artifacts of physical > hardware will be necessarily missing. (Such as SMRR, movable LAPIC base, > etc.) OVMF also does not include/provide a number of standardized SMM > abstractions, such as EFI_PEI_SMM_COMMUNICATION_PPI. (That's by choice, > BTW.) > > I vaguely recall that Ray used OVMF as a testbed for some SMM driver he > was developing at some point. I think Ray was using Q35 because of that > (i.e. SMM), and his use case also included CSM, and that's why he wrote > commit db27e9f3d8f0 ("OvmfPkg/LegacyRegion: Support legacy region > manipulation of Q35", 2016-03-15). But I could be totally imagining things. > > If you run > > git log --reverse --grep=SMM -- OvmfPkg > > you'll get a good amount of documentation about OVMF's SMM support. The > first large series was 8786ba4fe722..5e04f4b7e1a4, but things didn't > stop with that, of course. The OvmfPkg/README file has some notes on SMM > too. > > I think you should be able to imitate the variable driver split, for > your use case. You can write a runtime DXE driver that exposes a custom > protocol. You can write a UEFI app (to be started from the UEFI shell) > that locates and calls this protocol. In the implementation of the new > runtime protocol, you can use EFI_SMM_COMMUNICATION_PROTOCOL to send > message buffers into SMM. (Actually you could do this directly in your > UEFI app too.) I expect you should be able to write a DXE_SMM_DRIVER > driver too that registered a hook for the message sent. I don't recall > all the details off-hand, but it's very well specified in the Platform > Init spec. I hope this helps with Q2. > > Thanks > Laszlo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2018-09-25 13:10 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2018-09-20 14:30 [Question] Testing environment regarding SMM driver poxyran 2018-09-20 21:09 ` Andrew Fish 2018-09-21 18:15 ` poxyran 2018-09-21 18:41 ` Andrew Fish 2018-09-21 19:05 ` Laszlo Ersek 2018-09-25 13:10 ` poxyran
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