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Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:21:47 +0000 Received: from BN6PR05MB3411.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5df3:40e3:521a:7f84]) by BN6PR05MB3411.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5df3:40e3:521a:7f84%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2921.027; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:21:47 +0000 From: "Andrei Warkentin" To: "devel@edk2.groups.io" , Ard Biesheuvel , Samer El-Haj-Mahmoud , "pete@akeo.ie" CC: Leif Lindholm Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-platform][PATCH v1 0/4] Platform/RaspberryPi : Enable TFTP shell command Thread-Topic: [edk2-devel] [edk2-platform][PATCH v1 0/4] Platform/RaspberryPi : Enable TFTP shell command Thread-Index: AQHWFksLVB8KW5eI1E6krRdTNHmDgaiAcbcAgAAM2gCAAFvq3oAABP0AgAAEA+o= Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:21:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200419130417.3298-1-samer@elhajmahmoud.com> <8d59e616-9910-4935-2e1f-5da75fc1d34a@arm.com> <831705c6-0915-ba1a-adc0-3078b2af1a43@akeo.ie> ,<28ac6ff0-86eb-fde7-63f6-c1c7dc0f0724@akeo.ie> In-Reply-To: <28ac6ff0-86eb-fde7-63f6-c1c7dc0f0724@akeo.ie> Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=awarkentin@vmware.com; 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boundary="_000_BN6PR05MB34115242714AE5DA866E6421B9D70BN6PR05MB3411namp_" --_000_BN6PR05MB34115242714AE5DA866E6421B9D70BN6PR05MB3411namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So if I understood correctly: * If a random person off the street builds edk2 - they don't get TFTP = command out of the box * Our builds retain TFTP command Correct? ________________________________ From: devel@edk2.groups.io on behalf of Pete Batard= via groups.io Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 3:06 PM To: devel@edk2.groups.io ; Andrei Warkentin ; Ard Biesheuvel ; Samer El-Haj-Mahm= oud Cc: Leif Lindholm Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-platform][PATCH v1 0/4] Platform/Raspberry= Pi : Enable TFTP shell command Andrei, In case this is your concern, please note that we are not removing TFTP support at all, which is enabled for the RELEASE builds we produce and will remain so (and which anyone can enable with the macro if they wish). All that will be changed by the updated proposal is that the current DEBUG ASSERT will be fixed and TFTP support will remain optional, like it is today. So, in this case, I don't think your concern is warranted, because we're not actually taking any step to deprive anyone of any functionality they might wish for, and, even with the revised patch, TFTP will remain enabled in our RELEASE binaries, exactly as it has been before. Regards, /Pete On 2020.04.19 20:56, Andrei Warkentin wrote: > Hi folks, > > If we have to choose abstract goodness over functionality, why wouldn't > we choose functionality? Functionality that's part of Tiano? The real > world doesn't care about the TFTP command being an "unsupported hack" or > not. So there's Tiano-specific code here. Big deal? To rephrase > differently, why would either Pi 4 developers or Pi 4 UEFI users pay the > cost of Tiano carrying code that somehow isn't "legit enough" to be enab= led? > > I mean here we are again, where what goes into the code is being > dictated by some abstract ideology instead of technical reasons? > > A > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Pete Batard > *Sent:* Sunday, April 19, 2020 9:19 AM > *To:* Ard Biesheuvel ; Samer El-Haj-Mahmoud > ; devel@edk2.groups.io > *Cc:* Leif Lindholm ; Andrei Warkentin > > *Subject:* Re: [edk2-platform][PATCH v1 0/4] Platform/RaspberryPi : > Enable TFTP shell command > On 2020.04.19 14:33, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: >> On 4/19/20 3:04 PM, Samer El-Haj-Mahmoud wrote: >>> Fix an ASSERT with the TFTP dynamic Shell command on the >>> RPi3 and RPi4 when running DEBUG builds. Also, enable the >>> command by default for all builds. >>> >> >> Fixing the ASSERT is fine but I am reluctant to enable this by default. > > I'm going to second this. > > To answer a question Samer was asking elsewhere, this is actually part > of the reason why TFTP is not enabled in the DEBUG builds we produce at > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgith= ub.com%2Fpftf%2FRPi4&data=3D02%7C01%7Cawarkentin%40vmware.com%7C56cfed3= 40a494707ab0d08d7e49d2d64%7Cb39138ca3cee4b4aa4d6cd83d9dd62f0%7C0%7C0%7C6372= 29236035259614&sdata=3DEd8iabD5ARgBBYtsWgGw2Webu7dAW5Q9ju3qyqyVzX4%3D&a= mp;reserved=3D0 > (See build_firmware.sh), the reasoning > being that if someone encounters an issue with RELEASE and we ask them > to troubleshoot with the DEBUG artifact, we want to eliminate potential > troublemakers when they try that. > >> It is a non-standard hack that ARM contributed in the past, and is not >> covered by the EFI of Shell specifications. If RPi4 is intended to be a >> showcase for UEFI on ARM done right, we should not enable this at all. > > Here I have to point out that RPi4 becoming a showcase because we intend > to is not what we are pursuing (because if it was a matter of "willing" > a showcase into existence, we would have picked a platform with a lot > less quirks, more comprehensive documentation, and so on). > > Instead, we estimate that due to its price point and widespread > availability, it *is* going to become a de facto showcase, whether > everybody likes it or not. And that is the reason we want to treat is as > a showcase where possible. > > Regards, > > /Pete > --_000_BN6PR05MB34115242714AE5DA866E6421B9D70BN6PR05MB3411namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So if I understood correctly:
  • If a random person off the street builds edk2 - they don't get TFTP co= mmand out of the box
  • Our builds retain TFTP command
Correct?
From: devel@edk2.groups.io= <devel@edk2.groups.io> on behalf of Pete Batard via groups.io <pe= te=3Dakeo.ie@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 3:06 PM
To: devel@edk2.groups.io <devel@edk2.groups.io>; Andrei Warke= ntin <awarkentin@vmware.com>; Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@arm.c= om>; Samer El-Haj-Mahmoud <samer@elhajmahmoud.com>
Cc: Leif Lindholm <leif@nuviainc.com>
Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-platform][PATCH v1 0/4] Platform/Ra= spberryPi : Enable TFTP shell command
 
Andrei,

In case this is your concern, please note that we are not removing TFTP support at all, which is enabled for the RELEASE builds we produce and will remain so (and which anyone can enable with the macro if they wish).<= br>
All that will be changed by the updated proposal is that the current
DEBUG ASSERT will be fixed and TFTP support will remain optional, like it is today.

So, in this case, I don't think your concern is warranted, because we're <= br> not actually taking any step to deprive anyone of any functionality they <= br> might wish for, and, even with the revised patch, TFTP will remain
enabled in our RELEASE binaries, exactly as it has been before.

Regards,

/Pete

On 2020.04.19 20:56, Andrei Warkentin wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> If we have to choose abstract goodness over functionality, why wouldn= 't
> we choose functionality? Functionality that's part of Tiano? The real=
> world doesn't care about the TFTP command being an "unsupported = hack" or
> not. So there's Tiano-specific code here. Big deal? To rephrase
> differently, why would either Pi 4 developers or Pi 4 UEFI users pay = the
> cost of Tiano carrying code that somehow isn't "legit enough&quo= t; to be enabled?
>
> I mean here we are again, where what goes into the code is being
> dictated by some abstract ideology instead of technical reasons?
>
> A
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
> *From:* Pete Batard <pete@akeo.ie>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 19, 2020 9:19 AM
> *To:* Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@arm.com>; Samer El-Haj-Mah= moud
> <samer@elhajmahmoud.com>; devel@edk2.groups.io <devel@edk2.g= roups.io>
> *Cc:* Leif Lindholm <leif@nuviainc.com>; Andrei Warkentin
> <awarkentin@vmware.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [edk2-platform][PATCH v1 0/4] Platform/RaspberryPi : <= br> > Enable TFTP shell command
> On 2020.04.19 14:33, Ard Biesheuvel wrote:
>> On 4/19/20 3:04 PM, Samer El-Haj-Mahmoud wrote:
>>> Fix an ASSERT with the TFTP dynamic Shell command on the
>>> RPi3 and RPi4 when running DEBUG builds. Also, enable the
>>> command by default for all builds.
>>>
>>
>> Fixing the ASSERT is fine but I am reluctant to enable this by de= fault.
>
> I'm going to second this.
>
> To answer a question Samer was asking elsewhere, this is actually par= t
> of the reason why TFTP is not enabled in the DEBUG builds we produce = at
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub= .com%2Fpftf%2FRPi4&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cawarkentin%40vmware.com%7C56cfe= d340a494707ab0d08d7e49d2d64%7Cb39138ca3cee4b4aa4d6cd83d9dd62f0%7C0%7C0%7C63= 7229236035259614&amp;sdata=3DEd8iabD5ARgBBYtsWgGw2Webu7dAW5Q9ju3qyqyVzX= 4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> (See build_firmware.sh), the reasoning
> being that if someone encounters an issue with RELEASE and we ask the= m
> to troubleshoot with the DEBUG artifact, we want to eliminate potenti= al
> troublemakers when they try that.
>
>> It is a non-standard hack that ARM contributed in the past, and i= s not
>> covered by the EFI of Shell specifications. If RPi4 is intended t= o be a
>> showcase for UEFI on ARM done right, we should not enable this at= all.
>
> Here I have to point out that RPi4 becoming a showcase because we int= end
> to is not what we are pursuing (because if it was a matter of "w= illing"
> a showcase into existence, we would have picked a platform with a lot=
> less quirks, more comprehensive documentation, and so on).
>
> Instead, we estimate that due to its price point and widespread
> availability, it *is* going to become a de facto showcase, whether > everybody likes it or not. And that is the reason we want to treat is= as
> a showcase where possible.
>
> Regards,
>
> /Pete
>




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