From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp03.apple.com (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp03.apple.com [17.171.2.72]) by mx.groups.io with SMTP id smtpd.web12.7812.1600414666915285942 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:37:48 -0700 Authentication-Results: mx.groups.io; dkim=pass header.i=@apple.com header.s=20180706 header.b=b6u3wSxl; spf=pass (domain: apple.com, ip: 17.171.2.72, mailfrom: afish@apple.com) Received: from pps.filterd (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp03.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp03.apple.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 08I7T4P0041315; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:37:33 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=content-type : mime-version : subject : from : in-reply-to : date : cc : content-transfer-encoding : message-id : references : to; s=20180706; bh=lbBhn6JTtqMrLG9OuadQbBfg139mavwMoaQPKZCJbm0=; b=b6u3wSxlQZpkc0PxJd+IkA+4EJls+9BtS5bz/yosY9uAVvREGDy+RYP3BoVOao6LUO6h oOcgtFQrm7I6Ajl8QXCGW6Ws/y7Viao9ynAbYbDM7aA7ryoCUx13Rdxywjqkin9S9uyy u1nsxbOmlMRNxg5peGYCuY2IhVnXr8FAx4cnkD8jZY+kRmTUWuIilfFO+8RvW5MTgEjf Hnb1mV8RnUZJoIQhvGd2kDcCr/GsGF4TYB9W7UIFLHo4NljoCM21NXCJC+NbaNTvvz07 67x1I3GX4BPCqw0BiyoBi3OjCJneP7zHXVj4dxT051Azf311F/Zko+99GYQjQjMCTKPk xQ== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.149]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp03.apple.com with ESMTP id 33k5r0tr6y-9 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:37:33 -0700 Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.16]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPS id <0QGU00IP1FULRHE0@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) id <0QGU00800FECE200@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:37:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: e46d62b7dc3f91464ba9fc842ece509f X-Va-E-CD: fa200607765b796fb7b325c3d45920a4 X-Va-R-CD: cef1ac075682511be94eaaec3a102f4a X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: 2fb5f976-dd49-4b73-bf65-256277c403dc X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: e46d62b7dc3f91464ba9fc842ece509f X-V-E-CD: fa200607765b796fb7b325c3d45920a4 X-V-R-CD: cef1ac075682511be94eaaec3a102f4a X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 4d5a3b73-8702-474a-83a1-1e6534264176 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235,18.0.687 definitions=2020-09-18_06:2020-09-16,2020-09-18 signatures=0 Received: from [17.235.62.114] (unknown [17.235.62.114]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPSA id <0QGU00S1MFUI0X00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:37:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] more development process failure [was: UefiPayloadPkg: Runtime MMCONF] From: "Andrew Fish" In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:37:30 -0700 Cc: "lersek@redhat.com" , "Yao, Jiewen" , "gaoliming@byosoft.com.cn" , "Dong, Guo" , "marcello.bauer@9elements.com" , Mike Kinney , "Leif Lindholm (Nuvia address)" , Mark Doran , "Guptha, Soumya K" Message-id: References: <20200818082421.6168-1-marcello.bauer@9elements.com> <11b4d671-7c5e-0ef3-0d2f-13ef605f1eaf@redhat.com> <000e01d68c94$bb92d920$32b88b60$@byosoft.com.cn> <31e807dc-6217-f3b6-995b-ab10f4ce789e@redhat.com> To: edk2-devel-groups-io , "Ni, Ray" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235,18.0.687 definitions=2020-09-18_06:2020-09-16,2020-09-18 signatures=0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Ray, Here is my take and I think this is what Laszlo=E2=80=99s comments don=E2= =80=99t make clear. I agree with you that the rote process steps should be= very clear, but I think what Laszlo is pointing out that best practices an= d current thinking evolve over time and are hard to capture in words.=20 So I think our challenge is to step back and write process documentation t= hat make it easy to get started., but also make it easy to get the feedback= of what the community think is best practices. I kind of feel right now th= at our process documents are biased towards people who work on on the edk2 = day to day, and that makes it hard to bring on new members.=20 I think the path forward is making it easy for the developers to take the = right steps to get started so the community can give them feed back. This f= eedback is ultimately the current thinking of the community, but we also ne= ed think about how to make it easy to get started. So how do we document th= e process steps, that make it easy for the community to offer comments on t= he changes?=20 One of the ways we solved this kind of problem at Apple, is we make the pe= rson we just hired the owner of the getting started guide. I think the goal= is how do we make it easy for a new contributor to get he value of the fee= dback and knowledge of the community of experts.=20 But I think the solution is not to document everything we do, but to docum= ent the path of least resistance to join the community. And that is going t= o require people not in the community reviewing the documentation. We are t= oo biased and can not do it by our selves.=20 Thanks, Andrew Fish > On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:39 PM, Ni, Ray wrote: >=20 > Laszlo, > I support your idea of having a meaningful description for BZ, for commi= t message, for code comments. >=20 > Thinking from 1 or 2 years from now, the simple message we created may h= elp nothing to remind me or others why the changes were made. >=20 > We cannot reply on people's memories and even the people that have the m= emories may left the community. >=20 > So, documentation is necessary. >=20 > But I remember that our development process document in WIKI doesn't req= uire anything on the commit message perspective. >=20 > IMO, at least the commit message should contain: > * current status or reason(fail, lack of a feature, bad coding style) > * impact of the change or result (fail to pass, feature enabled, coding = style improved) >=20 > Can someone help to emphasize the requirement in the WIKI? >=20 > Thanks, > Ray >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20