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boundary="_004_SA1PR11MB5801C5A3CCFE09335C043C9FD0D09SA1PR11MB5801namp_"; type="multipart/alternative" --_004_SA1PR11MB5801C5A3CCFE09335C043C9FD0D09SA1PR11MB5801namp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_SA1PR11MB5801C5A3CCFE09335C043C9FD0D09SA1PR11MB5801namp_" --_000_SA1PR11MB5801C5A3CCFE09335C043C9FD0D09SA1PR11MB5801namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garrett, Yeah, that was what I was trying to get at with "let's use what we have now= and then make an incompatible V1.0". I like the idea of alternates too. = I dislike punishing early adopters and I don't think alternatives hurt most= of the envisioned use cases. Maybe we should start a branch for proposing and staging concrete changes. It isn't well polished, but if I summarize what we were going for, it looks= something like this: The key objectives for specifying FV are to: * Enable developers to rapidly understand what is same and different be= tween boards and platforms * Enable binary reuse use cases (integration, test, security, update) a= t a larger scope than individual drivers. * Leverage validation of binaries across targets The potential key use cases for specified Firmware Volumes include: * Auditing: Develop tools that can decompose the defined portion of a = UEFI firmware solution. * Integration: Binary FV containing common core elements (Stage III) c= an be well defined, with clear interfaces, dependencies, and functionality. * Integration: Binary FV containing silicon support can be well define= d and more readily managed, integrated, and audited. * Auditing: Build tool extensions can produce cryptographic strength h= ashes of defined FV that should not be customized. * Optimization: Support tools that can intelligently optimize out unne= eded components. * Simplification: By separating into a set of known FV, we can define = and mature them such that ownership can be maintained by one entity. Is there anything you would add or change for why the spec should specify F= V? What are interesting use cases you would like to see or prioritize? Regards, Isaac From: devel@edk2.groups.io On Behalf Of Kirkendall, = Garrett via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 11:28 AM To: Pedro Falcato ; devel@edk2.groups.io Cc: Oram, Isaac W ; Chiu, Chasel ; Desimone, Nathaniel L ; Gao, Liming = ; Dong, Eric ; Bobroff, Zach= ary ; Zimmer, Vincent Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] MinPlatformPkg question [AMD Official Use Only - General] While I can work with Fsp named items in the MinPlatformPkg specification, = I assumed the UEFI/edk2 team and maintainers might be amenable to making th= e specification more generic. One of my concerns with Fsp named FVs is tha= t critical core edk2 components are specified in them like PeiCore is speci= fied in FvFspM.fv, etc. There is only one guaranteed vendor implementing F= SP and therefore it might be better to have more generic names which could = attract more adopters more easily and reduce confusion. Maybe there could = be specified alternate names for non-FSP implementations? Having FSP in the name would imply that the product supports FSP when it do= es not. I'm looking forward in time as much as possible where this specification co= uld encompass ARM, RISCV, etc. and provide similar useful items MinPlatform= Pkg can provide to x86 platforms. I look forward to the next level of unified flow/structure that Minimum Pla= tform can provide to the industry. GARRETT KIRKENDALL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------- Facebook | Twitter = | amd.com [cid:image001.png@01D93569.E8855270] Words to live by: "Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast." From: Pedro Falcato > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 12:58 PM To: devel@edk2.groups.io; Kirkendall, Garrett = > Cc: Oram, Isaac W >; = Chiu, Chasel >; Desimon= e, Nathaniel L >; Gao, Liming >; Dong, Eric >; Bo= broff, Zachary >; Zimmer, Vincent= > Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] MinPlatformPkg question Caution: This message originated from an External Source. Use proper cautio= n when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding. On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:54 PM Kirkendall, Garrett via groups.io >= wrote: [Public] Isaac, One of the obvious hindrances to acceptance is the Firmware Volumes with Fs= p in the name. They would be obvious to an Intel FSP solution, but they ar= e not obvious to any other solution. Would it be possible to give them a m= ore generic descriptive name that would apply to any type of solution? GARRETT KIRKENDALL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------- Facebook | Twitter = | amd.com [cid:image001.png@01D93569.E8855270] Words to live by: "Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast." Garrett, Surely you've got bigger issues with the MinPlatform than naming right? I d= on't see how this can ever be a hindrance, particularly considering all you= 've got in the final firmware images are GUIDs. https://github.com/tianocore/edk2-platforms/blob/master/Platform/Qemu/QemuO= penBoardPkg/QemuOpenBoardPkg.fdf is an example of a virtual platform for QE= MU in MinPlatform fashion. Combine that and some other Intel platform and you probably have a decent idea of how an AMD= platform would look like (mentioned QOBP because of the lack of FSP and pr= e-mem CAR, although AIUI AGESA does expose an FSP interface). There are no problems by leaving firmware volumes you don't need/don't make= sense (like e.g Fsp-T) empty. -- Pedro --_000_SA1PR11MB5801C5A3CCFE09335C043C9FD0D09SA1PR11MB5801namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Garrett,

 

Yeah, that was what I was trying to get at with R= 20;let’s use what we have now and then make an incompatible V1.0̶= 1;.  I like the idea of alternates too.  I dislike punishing earl= y adopters and I don’t think alternatives hurt most of the envisioned use cases.

Maybe we should start a branch for proposing and sta= ging concrete changes.

 

It isn’t well polished, but if I summarize wha= t we were going for, it looks something like this:

 

The key objectives for specifying FV are to:

  • Enable developers to rapidly understand what is same and different be= tween boards and platforms
  • Enable binary reuse use cas= es (integration, test, security, update) at a larger scope than individual = drivers.
  • Leverage validation of binaries across target= s

 

The potential key use cases for specified Firmware V= olumes include:

  • Auditing:  Develop tools that can decompose the defined portion = of a UEFI firmware solution.
  • Integration:  Binary= FV containing common core elements (Stage III) can be well defined, with c= lear interfaces, dependencies, and functionality.
  • Int= egration:  Binary FV containing silicon support can be well defined an= d more readily managed, integrated, and audited.
  • Aud= iting:  Build tool extensions can produce cryptographic strength hashe= s of defined FV that should not be customized.
  • Optimiz= ation:  Support tools that can intelligently optimize out unneeded com= ponents.
  • Simplification:  By separating into a se= t of known FV, we can define and mature them such that ownership can be mai= ntained by one entity.

 

Is there anything you would add or change for why th= e spec should specify FV?  What are interesting use cases you would li= ke to see or prioritize?

 

Regards,
Isaac

 

 

From: devel@edk2.groups.io <devel@edk2.gro= ups.io> On Behalf Of Kirkendall, Garrett via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 11:28 AM
To: Pedro Falcato <pedro.falcato@gmail.com>; devel@edk2.groups= .io
Cc: Oram, Isaac W <isaac.w.oram@intel.com>; Chiu, Chasel <c= hasel.chiu@intel.com>; Desimone, Nathaniel L <nathaniel.l.desimone@in= tel.com>; Gao, Liming <gaoliming@byosoft.com.cn>; Dong, Eric <e= ric.dong@intel.com>; Bobroff, Zachary <zacharyb@ami.com>; Zimmer, Vincent <vincent.zimmer@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] MinPlatformPkg question

 

[AMD Officia= l Use Only - General]

 

While I can work with Fsp named items in the MinPlat= formPkg specification, I assumed the UEFI/edk2 team and maintainers might b= e amenable to making the specification more generic.  One of my concer= ns with Fsp named FVs is that critical core edk2 components are specified in them like PeiCore is specified in Fv= FspM.fv, etc.  There is only one guaranteed vendor implementing FSP an= d therefore it might be better to have more generic names which could attra= ct more adopters more easily and reduce confusion.  Maybe there could be specified alternate names for non-FS= P implementations?

 

Having FSP in the name would imply that the product = supports FSP when it does not.

 

I'm looking forward in time as much as possible wher= e this specification could encompass ARM, RISCV, etc. and provide similar u= seful items MinPlatformPkg can provide to x86 platforms.

 

I look forward to the next level of unified flow/str= ucture that Minimum Platform can provide to the industry.

 

GARRETT KIRKENDALL

--------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------<= /span>

<= span style=3D"color:black">Facebook |  Twitter&nb= sp;|  amd.com  

 

 

Words to live by: "Slow is Smooth.  Smooth= is Fast."

 

From: Pedro Falcato <pedro.falcato@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 12:58 PM
To: devel@edk2.groups.io= ; Kirkendall, Garrett <Gar= rett.Kirkendall@amd.com>
Cc: Oram, Isaac W <isaa= c.w.oram@intel.com>; Chiu, Chasel <chasel.chiu@intel.com>; Desimone, Nathaniel L <nathaniel.l.desimone@intel.com>; Gao, Liming <gaoliming@byos= oft.com.cn>; Dong, Eric <e= ric.dong@intel.com>; Bobroff, Zachary <zacharyb@ami.com>; Zimmer, Vincent <vincent.zimmer@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] MinPlatformPkg question

 

Caution: This message originated from an External Source. Use proper caution= when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding.

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:54 PM Kirkendall, Garrett = via groups.io <garrett.kirkendall=3Damd.com@groups.io> wrote:

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;col= or:green">[Public]

 

Isaac,

 

One of the obvious hindrances to acceptance is the Firmware Volume= s with Fsp in the name.  They would be obvious to an Intel FSP solutio= n, but they are not obvious to any other solution.  Would it be possible to give them a more generic descripti= ve name that would apply to any type of solution?

 

GARRETT KIRKENDALL

----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------

Facebook |  Twitter |  amd.com  

 

 

Words to live by: "Slow is Smooth.  Smooth is Fast."= ;

 

 

Garrett,

 

Surely you've got bigger issues with the MinPlatform= than naming right? I don't see how this can ever be a hindrance, particula= rly considering all you've got in the final firmware images are GUIDs.=

 

https:/= /github.com/tianocore/edk2-platforms/blob/master/Platform/Qemu/QemuOpenBoar= dPkg/QemuOpenBoardPkg.fdf is an example of a virtual platform for QEMU in MinPlatform fashion. Combine tha= t and

some other Intel platform and you probably have a de= cent idea of how an AMD platform would look like (mentioned QOBP because of= the lack of FSP and pre-mem CAR, although AIUI AGESA does expose an FSP in= terface).

 

There are no problems by leaving firmware volumes yo= u don't need/don't make sense (like e.g Fsp-T) empty.

 

--

Pedro

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