From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received-SPF: None (no SPF record) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=2001:8b0:10b:1231::1; helo=merlin.infradead.org; envelope-from=batv+540168966f0e7d79f545+5597+infradead.org+dwmw2@merlin.srs.infradead.org; receiver=edk2-devel@lists.01.org Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:10b:1231::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ml01.01.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 407D1211A2D83 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 05:37:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Mime-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=S7B0AIChdZWm4nI4/lGPfDCgRnixL6Jf6UD1yJ7HOn8=; b=jx/1w8lb+rkq1NPth00v+Uh5n j5fsQ3OWyGC4CE31yH6xeXrEY0lluwafmHCk/YdQvzl0GmuBsRzzPPoPv5ZmtEjLR9b03vT6LP3qH YmFWoQShCfhqF+AATPEP0hgrnbdQWLvgl4qla8FdfaL9CQ30+dobDvY1G54PKWICbCsggNyNYg95n /o6LPNsefzqHfU/QW9NoMOcZYsRdMX1PidXyKr7aC7ESuk594mvSc/T3KOGRJTlKhOU0matbEwsP4 D0Ga45kUy/0pd1rgscMSjfJPrOgZtK873mw20PxsfCw2+4YYhUywMJgT/RC8kAAHWOavG2KmoAQQO nnBe71Ghg==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:1::3ae] (helo=u3832b3a9db3152) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.90_1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1gZyVx-0005np-Jb; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:37:26 +0000 Message-ID: From: David Woodhouse To: Gerd Hoffmann , Laszlo Ersek Cc: "Ni, Ruiyu" , "Justen, Jordan L" , Ard Biesheuvel , Anthony Perard , Julien Grall , "edk2-devel@lists.01.org" , Kevin O'Connor Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:37:23 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20181220064447.7eflwhm3t5upj7ds@sirius.home.kraxel.org> References: <734D49CCEBEEF84792F5B80ED585239D5BF6035C@SHSMSX104.ccr.corp.intel.com> <20181220064447.7eflwhm3t5upj7ds@sirius.home.kraxel.org> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by merlin.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Subject: Re: Drop CSM support in OvmfPkg? X-BeenThere: edk2-devel@lists.01.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: EDK II Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:37:48 -0000 X-Groupsio-MsgNum: 34304 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-leq2UbOfKEoxX05I442Z" --=-leq2UbOfKEoxX05I442Z Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2018-12-20 at 07:44 +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 10:54:25AM +0100, Laszlo Ersek wrote: > > (Adding Kevin, Gerd, David) > >=20 > > On 12/17/18 03:23, Ni, Ruiyu wrote: > > > Hi OvmfPkg maintainers and reviewers, > > > I am working on removing IntelFrameworkModulePkg and IntelFrameworkPk= g. The biggest dependency now I see is the CSM components that OVMF depends= on. > > > So I'd like to know your opinion about how to handle this. I see two = options here: > > >=20 > > > 1. Drop CSM support in OvmfPkg. > > > 2. Create a OvmfPkg/Csm folder to duplicate all CSM components the= re. > > >=20 > > > What's your opinion about this? > >=20 > > (1) Personally I never use CSM builds of OVMF. The OVMF builds in RHEL > > and Fedora also don't enable the CSM (mainly because I had found > > debugging & supporting the CSM *extremely* difficult). For > > virtualization, we generally recommend "use SeaBIOS directly if you nee= d > > a traditional BIOS guest". >=20 > On a virtual machine it is very simple to switch the firmware (unlike on > physical machines), which I think is the main reason ovmf+csm never > really took off. Hm, that's true for virtual machines where you own the host system too and switching BIOS is just a matter of configuration. If you're running VM hosting at scale, however, and the customers don't get that level of control, then offering a single BIOS image which does UEFI and CSM in a "one size fits all" does have some merit. > > (3) However, David and Kevin had put a *lot* of work into enabling > > SeaBIOS to function as a CSM in combination with OVMF. Today, the CSM > > target is a dedicated / separate "build mode" of SeaBIOS. >=20 > IIRC there are still some corner cases which are not working and nobody > wants put any effort into fixing them. S3 suspend comes to mind. Don't think that should be hard to fix if anyone really cares... > I'm not even sure it still works. It builds, yes, my jenkins instance > does that. But there is no testing beyond that, and I doubt that > someone else does regular ovmf+csm regression testing. So the chances > that any runtime breakage goes unnoticed are pretty high ... >=20 > > (4) I also think an open source CSM implementation should exist, just s= o > > people can study it and experiment with it. >=20 > It'll not be deleted from git, so it'll be there even when removed from > master branch. >=20 > > In short, I think the community would benefit if someone continued to > > maintain the CSM infrastructure in edk2, Ruiyu (and Jordan), what's actually happening here? You said you were deprecating IntelFrameworkPkg... in the internal Intel builds, what replaces the CSM part? We fought to get parts of CSM support published to TianoCore from the internal tree, and I'm concerned that this is a regression =E2=80=94 we end up with CSM support only being internal again. = Or is it being dropped from the Intel tree entirely?=20 I am very much against *increasing* the number of features which are supported in private repositories and not the public one. --=-leq2UbOfKEoxX05I442Z Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEFQw ggUxMIIEGaADAgECAhBNRhEyk/HZ7naOeTHWrzuAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGXMQswCQYDVQQG EwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRowGAYD VQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE9MDsGA1UEAxM0Q09NT0RPIFJTQSBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVu dGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xNzEyMjEwMDAwMDBaFw0xODEyMjEyMzU5 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