[edk2-announce] Mailing List Move Day Set: April 4th

[edk2-announce] Mailing List Move Day Set: April 4th

[stephano]

I will be moving our mailing list from 01.org over to Groups.io as of 
April 4th. I will send out another warning 1 week before, and a final 
warning 1 day before the move.

On April 4th the edk2-devel@lists.01.org will begin to bounce emails and 
I will begin uploading the archive to Groups.io. I do not have an 
estimate from Groups.io on how long that archive upload will take.

To summarize: after April 4th 2019 you can *no longer send patches to 
edk2-devel@lists.01.org*. Please send all patches to:

devel@edk2.groups.io

This new list requires 1 email approval before you can post, so please 
be patient as our moderators approve you all.

After April 4th, all announcements will come from:

announce@edk2.groups.io

This list only allows moderators to post, so please contact me if you 
have announcements.

As always, I welcome your comments and questions. Thank you for your 
patience while we work to improve the quality of our community.

Cheers,
Stephano

Re: [edk2-announce] Mailing List Move Day Set: April 4th

[Laszlo Ersek]

Hi Stephano,

On 03/23/19 01:41, stephano wrote:
> I will be moving our mailing list from 01.org over to Groups.io as of
> April 4th. I will send out another warning 1 week before, and a final
> warning 1 day before the move.
> 
> On April 4th the edk2-devel@lists.01.org will begin to bounce emails and
> I will begin uploading the archive to Groups.io. I do not have an
> estimate from Groups.io on how long that archive upload will take.
> 
> To summarize: after April 4th 2019 you can *no longer send patches to
> edk2-devel@lists.01.org*. Please send all patches to:
> 
> devel@edk2.groups.io

Can you please confirm that the current mailing list archive URLs will
continue working? For example:

https://lists.01.org/pipermail/edk2-devel/2019-March/038114.html

It's fine if the archive will not be extended with new messages in the
future, and also if the old messages get uploaded in the new list
archive. However, the old links should continue working as well,
indefinitely (it will not require additional storage, just a bit of
additional bandwidth, as old messages are looked up).

Personally, when I provide archive links (in discussions, BZs, commit
messages etc), I tend to make sure that I include two links: one into
the master archive, and another (to the same message) into the
mail-archive.com archive. From these, I make sure that the 2nd one is
always a Message-ID-based URL. The benefit is that, even if
mail-archive.com disappears, people can construct new URLs to old
messages, from the old message-IDs that are captured in the old URLs --
assuming a new archive service exposes the old messages by message-ID again.

*However*, that's just me. Most people include just one link, and that's
into the current master archive. Those links make no sense outside of
the specific archive service. And, I suffer *to this day* from the fact
that GMANE had gone down in summer 2016, and a huge amount of old
references (into the GMANE archive) are now completely useless.

In brief, please preseve the archive at
<https://lists.01.org/pipermail/edk2-devel/>, albeit with locked down
content, indefinitely.

Thank you,
Laszlo

> 
> This new list requires 1 email approval before you can post, so please
> be patient as our moderators approve you all.
> 
> After April 4th, all announcements will come from:
> 
> announce@edk2.groups.io
> 
> This list only allows moderators to post, so please contact me if you
> have announcements.
> 
> As always, I welcome your comments and questions. Thank you for your
> patience while we work to improve the quality of our community.
> 
> Cheers,
> Stephano
> _______________________________________________
> edk2-devel mailing list
> edk2-devel@lists.01.org
> https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/edk2-devel

Re: [edk2-announce] Mailing List Move Day Set: April 4th

[stephano]

On 3/25/2019 5:51 AM, Laszlo Ersek wrote:
> Hi Stephano,
> 
> Can you please confirm that the current mailing list archive URLs will
> continue working? 

Yes, I'll check on this today.

> Personally, when I provide archive links (in discussions, BZs, commit
> messages etc), I tend to make sure that I include two links: one into
> the master archive, and another (to the same message) into the
> mail-archive.com archive. From these, I make sure that the 2nd one is
> always a Message-ID-based URL. The benefit is that, even if
> mail-archive.com disappears, people can construct new URLs to old
> messages, from the old message-IDs that are captured in the old URLs --
> assuming a new archive service exposes the old messages by message-ID again.

This is a good point and shows the level of detail that is preserved by 
the mailing list if maintained properly. I would assume this is part of 
the reason that the Linux kernel has continued to use mailing lists for 
patch review as this level of detail is highly desired in their case.

> In brief, please preseve the archive at
> <https://lists.01.org/pipermail/edk2-devel/>, albeit with locked down
> content, indefinitely.

Will do.

Cheers,
Stephano

Re: [edk2-announce] Mailing List Move Day Set: April 4th

[Rebecca Cran]

On 3/25/19 10:21 AM, stephano wrote:
>
> This is a good point and shows the level of detail that is preserved 
> by the mailing list if maintained properly. I would assume this is 
> part of the reason that the Linux kernel has continued to use mailing 
> lists for patch review as this level of detail is highly desired in 
> their case.


Talking of such things, I noticed a couple weeks ago that the Gmane link 
at https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/edk2-devel doesn't work .

 From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane :

"In July 2016, Ingebrigtsen announced that he was considering shutting 
Gmane down, and the web interface was taken offline.^[2] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-2> ^[3] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-3> In August 2016 Gmane 
was acquired by Yomura Holdings. Only the message spool was transferred, 
with the software behind the site having to be redeveloped.^[4] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-4> ^[5] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-5> On the 6 September 
2016, it was announced that the Gmane web interface would be coming 
online again.^[6] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-6> 
However, by February 2018 a LWN.net 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LWN.net> article observed that the web 
interface did "never [...] return, breaking thousands of links across 
the net. The front page still says 'some things are very broken' and 
links to a blog page that was last updated in September 2016."^[7] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-7>"


-- 
Rebecca Cran

Re: [edk2-announce] Mailing List Move Day Set: April 4th

[Laszlo Ersek]

On 03/25/19 23:21, Rebecca Cran via edk2-devel wrote:
> On 3/25/19 10:21 AM, stephano wrote:
>>
>> This is a good point and shows the level of detail that is preserved
>> by the mailing list if maintained properly. I would assume this is
>> part of the reason that the Linux kernel has continued to use mailing
>> lists for patch review as this level of detail is highly desired in
>> their case.
> 
> 
> Talking of such things, I noticed a couple weeks ago that the Gmane link
> at https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/edk2-devel doesn't work .

Indeed, we should now replace that link with:

- https://www.mail-archive.com/edk2-devel@lists.01.org/info.html
- https://www.mail-archive.com/edk2-devel@lists.01.org/

as the "alternative archive".

(OTOH, it may be simpler to just wait until we move to gropus.io).

> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane :
> 
> "In July 2016, Ingebrigtsen announced that he was considering shutting
> Gmane down, and the web interface was taken offline.^[2]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-2> ^[3]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-3> In August 2016 Gmane
> was acquired by Yomura Holdings. Only the message spool was transferred,
> with the software behind the site having to be redeveloped.^[4]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-4> ^[5]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-5> On the 6 September
> 2016, it was announced that the Gmane web interface would be coming
> online again.^[6] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-6>
> However, by February 2018 a LWN.net
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LWN.net> article observed that the web
> interface did "never [...] return, breaking thousands of links across
> the net. The front page still says 'some things are very broken' and
> links to a blog page that was last updated in September 2016."^[7]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane#cite_note-7>"

The downfall of GMANE was nothing short of a catastrophe, for open source.

(It was also what taught me to capture Message-ID-based links to
archived messages. Message-IDs outlive websites.)

Thanks
Laszlo